Curse

skaspaakssa · Mar 21, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

I just saw this build in HA that seems to be exploiting a whole bunch of bugs:

They have necromancers with Dark Aura, Shadow Walk, and a bunch of enchantments. Shadow Walk lets them cast enchantments but makes them fail, so they're still triggering Dark Aura.

Dark Aura seems to do self-damage instead of loss of life, so prots like Mark of Protection let them spam with Cultist's Fervor while it's up.

Inde Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I talked to Izzy, and he says this is going to be fixed soon. Thanks for the report!

Captain Miken · Mar 21, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Just watched GANK running it.... and they uh... got raped in the scores, but their killing power was amazing.

C2K · Mar 21, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

I haven't seen it yet. If they are N/A builds, and Cultist fervor is the elite, I'm guessing they spam 3-4 1/4 cast enchants in the necro and sin skill tree(like poisoned heart, Feign neutrality, etc.).

DarkNecrid · Mar 21, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

1) I don't HA, just for the record.

2) This isn't an exploit. It's using game mechanics.

3) It isn't a bug either, it's using game mechanics.

Whats your problem? Of course it works because it deals self damage not sac (so that you can't halve it), and MoP stops you from taking damage....amazing.

Killed u man · Mar 21, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

1) I don't HA, just for the record.

2) This isn't an exploit. It's using game mechanics.

3) It isn't a bug either, it's using game mechanics.

Whats your problem? Of course it works because it deals self damage not sac (so that you can't halve it), and MoP stops you from taking damage....amazing.

Hmm, Dark Aura is defined as "Loss" of life. No Damage, but loss. (Big difference) I never really tried it, so I gues we need to confirm it first... But yeah, IF you get healed by MoP for the "XX" HP you should have "lost" from Dark Aura, it is an exploit...

Other than that:
Shadowstep = Bad Mechanic
Stance = Not so Smart Mechanic (E.g, stances using skills, whilst being KD'd shouldn't be arround)

Bad Mechanic + Not so Smart Mechanic = Imba (Bye Bye aftercast)

EDIT: I had the wrong idea, this is plain broken

I tought it was slighly glitched, it's plain broken

Riotgear · Mar 21, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

3) It isn't a bug either, it's using game mechanics.

How is sacrificing life even when a spell fails to complete casting not a bug?

Patrick Smit · Mar 21, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

A this is the trick behind it, I just was killed almost instantly in RA with it while i still run around with some 560 life. Thought the guy used a macro and he replied he didnt. For sure this need be fixed

before its gonna turn everything into a saccing fest

[edit]
I tried to reproduce it on the isle and i dont get it to work, maybe allready changed? can anyone confirm this?
[/edit]

niek2004 · Mar 21, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

this relies on SO MANY THINGS, you need MoP up. me and a friend of me have been using this for a while now, doesnt need to be fixed relies on too much. the dmg is great tho.
]

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Mar 21, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

try playing TA every other match is this crap

DarkNecrid · Mar 21, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

How is sacrificing life even when a spell fails to complete casting not a bug?

Because, if this is working as I think it is, you pay the sacrifice cost before the skill actually activates, do you not? Therefore, if the skill fails to cast, you still pay for the cost, just like if you use a spell on someone with say, Spell breaker, you still pay the energy.

Killed u man · Mar 21, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Because, if this is working as I think it is, you pay the sacrifice cost before the skill actually activates, do you not? Therefore, if the skill fails to cast, you still pay for the cost, just like if you use a spell on someone with say, Spell breaker, you still pay the energy.

Shadowwalk says: CANNOT CAST...

Typical, we have NO clue what this means. Does it mean you CAN cast, but CAN'T finish the cast (Fail in the end). Does it mean fail all together?
Bad mechanic ftw

Anyways, I'm gonna hold hoh with this shit if anet doesn't fix it soon xD

EDIT: By the way: bind 8 keys to Death nova, spam the shit out of them. I just killed a 100 target clean ^^

DarkNecrid · Mar 21, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Um....it's not a bad mechanic.

Its a wording selection used in "Action Prevention" skills.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Action_...uick_reference

So yeah...

fenix · Mar 21, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

It's dumb, because rather than stopping you cast the enchants, it just cancels it over and over. Needs a fix, this build is stupid, my guild came against 5 monks, 2 of those Necs and a Rit with Weapon of Quickening... they were terrible players, so they lost, but the build was overpowered all the same.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Mar 21, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

yeah this build is stupid, although im actually surprised people cant mash buttons correctly

Patrick Smit · Mar 21, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

I haven't seen it yet. If they are N/A builds, and Cultist fervor is the elite, I'm guessing they spam 3-4 1/4 cast enchants in the necro and sin skill tree(like poisoned heart, Feign neutrality, etc.).

no u just need to spam one enchant a cheap self-targetted one preferably 5 or less cost, due cultist fervor reduction cost.

Its a sick mechanic, either make the sac happen after finishing cast, make use of the enchant skills impossible, or let shadow walk remove all enchants when activated.

Sun Fired Blank · Mar 21, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Or get rid of Shadow Walk. Can anyone remember any use instance in which that skill hasn't enabled obnoxiousness?

Lorekeeper · Mar 21, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

technically the build is legitimate, even failed casting attempts like casting something protected by spellbreaker or obsidian flesh or shadow shroud still cost you energy. Fervor reduces the cost of your spells so theres no reason why the synergy between shadowwalk and cultists fervor is broken.

its an interesting build, but far from something a good team should have problems with unless they are totally unprepared. So i guess teams will lose to it when caught by suprise but probably not lose to it thereafter.

These are the weaknesses

1) the life sac from cultists and health loss from dark aura - you need a way to offset the life saccing and health loss. Mark of protection, healing hands and healing seed are the only things that can keep the necro alive while spamming enchants. Life barrier and Angelic Bond only halve the dmg taken from dark aura but not the health sac.

2) downtime of cultists fervor - cultists fervor lasts 20 seconds at 15 blood so with a +20% enchant it lasts for 24 seconds at most out of 30 meaning a simple rend enchantments on the necro will strip away cultists, dark aura, mark of protection in one go. The build is highly vulnerable to enchant removals. The only way to prevent this from happening is with spellbreaker.

4) damage from dark aura is adjacent range only, meaning its easily kitable if the cultists fervor necro gets snared or if the target isnt snared. The necro cannot even chase the target since he has to spam death nova on himself and thus must be stationary, which means the target needs to be stationary too.

So to make the build work without falling victim to its weaknesses you need the following.

1. Cultists fervor necro
2. Spell breaker monk
3. Mark of protection monk/healing hands/healing seed monk
4. Some kind of snare (gale, water ele, shadow prison, gust etc) which will give you a few seconds to kill a target.

if you dont want matches to last forever you might want 2 of these necros because of the down time of cultists fervor and all of those protective enchantments you might even want 2 spellbreaker monks and 2 Mark of protection monks so you can kill more than 1 target at once.

Counters to the build

1) well of profane
2) shutdown on snare so targets can kite from necro (not so easy on altar maps)
3) interrupt on spellbreaker to allow removal of necro enchantments with rend
4) nonspell enchant removal like signet of disenchant (not often seen)
5) interrupt cultists fervor or dark aura (both 1 second casts) and just run away if you missed them
6) spike the necro while protective enchantments are reloading (necro has very low health if running dual majors or sups)

id like to see this build run well, and not just as a noobstomp build. If its being run late at night i can only assume its doing well as a noobstomp build.

I would also like to see how it does versus the R/D NR/Tranq build with warmongers.

too soon to cry ''IMBA!'' just yet imo.

Edit: i forgot Weapon of Quickening, can help to lower the downtime of cultists fervor, MoP and Spellbreaker greatly and blessed aura which can extend spellbreaker duration alot.

Patrick Smit · Mar 21, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

the mechanic is still not in line with descriptions.

shadow walk:
Stance. Shadow Step to target foe. For 30 seconds, you cannot cast Enchantments. When this Stance ends, you return to your original location.

Cultist fervor:
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17 seconds, your spells cost -7 Energy to cast, but you sacrifice 30...18% Maximum Health each time you cast a Spell.

it says clearly you cannot cast spells, it doesnt say that your attempt to cast fails. so if u cannot cast, u can also not use the reduction to activate the skill (as it IS impossible) and the saccing should also not occur. It should work identical to Vow of Silence which says the target is "immune" to spells. This could be better described by the warning: target cannot cast spels/enchantments, and prevention of the skill to activate

Lorekeeper · Mar 21, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

the mechanic is still not in line with descriptions.

shadow walk:
Stance. Shadow Step to target foe. For 30 seconds, you cannot cast Enchantments. When this Stance ends, you return to your original location.

Cultist fervor:
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17 seconds, your spells cost -7 Energy to cast, but you sacrifice 30...18% Maximum Health each time you cast a Spell.

it says clearly you cannot cast spells, it doesnt say that your attempt to cast fails. so if u cannot cast, u can also not use the reduction to activate the skill (as it IS impossible) and the saccing should also not occur. It should work identical to Vow of Silence which says the target is "immune" to spells. This could be better described by the warning: target cannot cast spels/enchantments, and prevention of the skill to activate

hmm it seems like a vaguery in terminogoly or an inconsistency.

what about shadow shroud and shroud of silence, do you still have failed cast attempts even if they say you cannot cast?

because if so, it seems these skills arent working like you would expect them to. Judging by their wording they should act like blackout and prevent someone from even being able to activate a spell. In which case they are all bugged or broken or not working as intended, however you want to put it.

Patrick Smit · Mar 21, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Spellbreaker:
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...15 seconds, enemy spells targeted against target ally fail.

Shadow Form:
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41 Health.

With shadow shroud u cannot activate skills, so no failure, consistent with its discription

Shadowshroud:
Elite Hex Spell. For 3...8 seconds, target foe cannot be the target of Enchantments.

It seems rather consistent to me, except the implementation.